Novice Simulation Blues

[Musicmanager]

HI
New forum member - be patient !

A good while ago, I purchased a PIC VSM starter package but after 12 months of failing to get it to do anything useful I abandoned it in favour of old fashioned trial & error.

I have a friend and ardent Proteus advocate who is trying to persuade me to buy a similar package for AVR because I now do a lot of Arduino. I downloaded the demo software and whilst I can see how it could be useful I've run into an identical issue to my previous experience, namely .. .. .. ..

.. Simulation is not running in real time due to excessive CPU load ' @76% .. ..

.. .. .and that schematic had only 2 x I/O switching LED's .. .. .. .

During my previous effort i upgraded my PC to i7 dual core but it didn't help any, although this time I have had some success by changing the graphics software - Windows GDI making the best although not ideal result.


Is there an ideal hardware setup that will eliminate my angst ? My hair is already grey due to age, but tearing it out is getting painful ??


Any advice would be appreciated


MM

[David]

Hi,

Which Sample design are you running and did you write your own code or just simply running our sample? Thanks.

Regards,
Dave.

[Musicmanager]

Hi David

Thanks for your response .. .. .. .

I downloaded the VSM Demo software from the website; On the Homepage, I clicked on 'Open Sample' and selected VSM for AVR .. .. .. .

I didn't try them all, but most of the list that appears .. .. .. .. .

Each has the same problem .. .. .. .

Thanks

MM

[Ianr]

Hi Dave..

I phoned yesterday regarding this issue...

I have tried running the pre compiled examples and I feel they sim a lot slower than the pic.. some are 80~90% slower than real time. obviously the more peripherals the slower they are...

I run a pic18f8722 with 128 x 128 screen and mcp shift registers and a whole heap of LED's and it runs pretty much full speed..

Can I assume the AVR model is more intense than the pic equivalent?

[Musicmanager]

As I indicated in my opening post, I was looking for help with the justification of purchasing and using Proteus for AVR, in particularly Arduino.

I ran into some operating difficulties which may well have been self inflicted and made a telephone request for help when I was pointed in the direction of the Demo program and all the examples for AVR and Arduino, but I was alarmed to discover that none of the examples would run in real time which gave me concerns and as a result, I tried to raise the matter on this forum.

I received an almost immediate response in the form of a question, immediately answered, which seemed to be intimating that it was likely 'all my own fault' which wasn't terribly helpful, although it did generate a supportive post from another forum member.

However, that was all over two weeks ago, and since that time I have not received anything further .. .. .. .

To say that is disappointing is an understatement as I was given to believe that Proteus is the ' Dog's Doodahs ' .. I've no idea how good it is or isn't, but I do know this has confirmed my resolve to avoid Proteus because the support is more like the ' Dog's Doodoos ' !!

Perhaps the response would have been more attentive if I'd been thinking of spending thousands on a complete package .. .. .. .

A narrow escape I feel .. .. .

MM

[Ettore]

In the simulated world, what matters is not whether the simulation is performed in real time or not but, rather, whether or not the correlation between the real and relative time is correctly preserved. Proteus ensures this correlation in any case, that is, the simulated time indicated in the status bar - albeit on an expanded time scale - is absolutely correlated to the flow of the real world time.

When, for any reason, Proteus is unable to advance the timestep by the specified value for each single frame - default is 50ms for 20 frames per second - then it simply reduces the timestep in order to dilatate the relative simulated time and, for sake of clarity, informs the user with a suitable warning message. Other simulators, Multisim for instance, even if extremely slower in many cases do not highlight this fact to the user; however a quick check of the simulation log shows as it is simulating to an expanded time scale.

Specifically, Arduino works with a clock of 16MHz and this makes it difficult to execute in real time even a seemingly simple circuit like driving a number of LEDs or analogue 7-seg display by a PWM signal. Anyway, if you consider one of the examples and change the processor clock frequency to, say, 4MHz and recompile it for this new frequency, you will find that many of those examples may run in real time.

However, having said that I believe that because of the low confidence degree you have shown since the first opening post - the title is emblematic - it is perfectly useless to try convincing you of the infinite possibilities of Proteus. What a pity!

[Musicmanager]

Good Afternoon Ettore

Thank you for your response and moreover your detailed explanation of the issues I have perceived as a problem.

The Novice bit of the title refers to me in many ways and my expectations of Proteus, very much fuelled by the enthusiasm of my EE friends, leads me to expect a level of 'perfection' that clearly isn't there, but fails to recognise that it is my expectation that is at fault, not the software.

Also, I have a piece of fairly crude simulation software, purchased when I first started my hobby, that can be loaded with as many analog devices as you like and it will be seen to run in real time. I can see from your detail, that the comparison between the two in expectation terms is unfair.

You are right that I have low confidence in my expectation of Proteus, but you must understand that 5 years ago I purchased the VSM Starter for PIC and couldn't get it to run for me and when I asked for help nothing but nothing was forthcoming and I was forced to abandon it and accept the loss of the cost of the package.

However, the information you have provided makes sense to me and I will take your suggestion and try out the changes you recommend.

Contrary to your final paragraph, I'm very keen that Proteus will work for me; I'm repeatedly told it is the best option by a good margin, however, I do think it's a great pity this information wasn't forthcoming at least 2 weeks ago when I posted the question, if not 5 years ago when I ask the same question and got no reply.

I'll let you know how I get on in due course.

Regards

MM

[David]

Hi,

Can I recommend that you also send in your projects that you are having difficulties to support@labcenter.com along with an explination - that is generally the quickest way to get a response! Have a good weekend!

regards,
Dave.

[Ianr]

I feel like I may have been too enthusiastic in my recommendations... Maybe I've advertised this product too well..

I also have had a poor response from the AVR simulations... All my pic stuff run exceedingly well.. Any time I have had issues, Ettore and David have helped me as best as I could have hoped..

As I don't have the AVR suite, I had never noticed this, I wrongly assumed a full license gives better performance ( which would be counter productive )

The Arduino example in question does run at a tenth of the real time speed... BUT!! individual addressable LED's !!! That may be too much to ask for...

[Musicmanager]

ROFL !!

' .. .. You're evaluation period has expired, please contact Labcenter and purchase a licence .. .. '


MM

[Musicmanager]

Morning & Sorry

As you were, I've just realised I can run the AVR samples with my Starter pack licence .. .. .. .

Done some, things are looking better .. ..


MM