Is there any way to create subcircuits that are represented on multiple pages/sheets without using additional sub-circuits on the child sheet?
Darrell
Multiple Sheet Subcircuits
Re: Multiple Sheet Subcircuits
I thought this would be a relatively straight forward question and after re-reviewing the help associated with "multi-sheet hierarchical designs", I think the answer is that it is NOT possible (but a confirmation from an experienced user would be nice).
So if that (one sheet per subcircuit) is true, what do most people do when the subcircuit is more complicated (or at least composed of a lot of components)? I guess you could just make the paper size bigger for more realestate on the sheet (disadvantage is if you want a print out). Otherwise I guess you would need to just put more modules on the first subsheet to get more subsheets, with the main disadvantage of needing to create/add all the ports for interconnecting the sub-sheets.
Any suggestions?
I also wondered if there was a way to find any "lost" subsheets in a design, it seems like they persist if you change a module name and then change it back (not sure how long thought).
Darrell
So if that (one sheet per subcircuit) is true, what do most people do when the subcircuit is more complicated (or at least composed of a lot of components)? I guess you could just make the paper size bigger for more realestate on the sheet (disadvantage is if you want a print out). Otherwise I guess you would need to just put more modules on the first subsheet to get more subsheets, with the main disadvantage of needing to create/add all the ports for interconnecting the sub-sheets.
Any suggestions?
I also wondered if there was a way to find any "lost" subsheets in a design, it seems like they persist if you change a module name and then change it back (not sure how long thought).
Darrell
Re: Multiple Sheet Subcircuits
I confirm one sheet per sub-circuit. It is not possible in V7.xx to have multiple flat sheets under one sub-circuit.
Orphaned sub-circuits will definitely be removed at session end. I suspect that executing a tidy command will also clean them out.
Iain.
Orphaned sub-circuits will definitely be removed at session end. I suspect that executing a tidy command will also clean them out.
Iain.
Re: Multiple Sheet Subcircuits
Hard to believe I originally posted this topic over a decade ago, just to come back to it after being away from PCB design for a few years and running up against the same issue (never found a great solution).
Seems like it is still the case that subcircuits are limited to a single page (please someone correct me if I'm missing how to make it happen).
The number of pins of some of the devices make the symbols themselves need to be divided into multi-device components taking up essentially a single letter sized page themselves.
Am I just unusual in that I want to be able to print onto some standard letter sized pages (instead of increasing the page size dramatically to large format printer land) so that it can be marked up by hand or used as a paper reference for testing?
How are others dealing with what seems like a limitation?
Note that I want to use subcircuits because I have tens of identical circuit blocks and would not want to try to keep them synchronized in a flat design as I make revisions to the block/subcircuit.
Darrell
Seems like it is still the case that subcircuits are limited to a single page (please someone correct me if I'm missing how to make it happen).
The number of pins of some of the devices make the symbols themselves need to be divided into multi-device components taking up essentially a single letter sized page themselves.
Am I just unusual in that I want to be able to print onto some standard letter sized pages (instead of increasing the page size dramatically to large format printer land) so that it can be marked up by hand or used as a paper reference for testing?
How are others dealing with what seems like a limitation?
Note that I want to use subcircuits because I have tens of identical circuit blocks and would not want to try to keep them synchronized in a flat design as I make revisions to the block/subcircuit.
Darrell
Re: Multiple Sheet Subcircuits
Normally you would have multiple sub-circuits on parent sheet (channel1, channel 2 etc.) and you give them the same circuit name. Then, whatever you do in one sub-circuit will automatically mirror or update in the others. If you set an annotation base for each channel you can then lay out one channel on the PCB and replicate with a binding to one of the other channels and the appropriate annotation offset.Note that I want to use subcircuits because I have tens of identical circuit blocks and would not want to try to keep them synchronized in a flat design as I make revisions to the block/subcircuit.
For simpler setups Project Clips give you an easily re-usable system. This however is best left for after the design of the circuitry is complete and doesn't sound suitable in this case.
There's an older video explainer here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr-nB-LjbRI
A bit more on project clips here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb2roIq1lzo
Re: Multiple Sheet Subcircuits
I understand (and want to use) the value of sub circuits as you mention above.
The limitation I find is that even ONE of my "channel" schematics is too complex to fit on the single sheet that the SINGLE instance of a subcircuit allows.
Any suggestions?
Right now the only thing I can do is to have MULTIPLE subcircuits for EACH "channel" (with different circuit names like Channel Piece A, Channel Piece B, etc.). Which means a lot more adding ports to subciruit blocks and connecting things at the root level(Channel 1 Piece A <-> Channel 1 Piece B, Channel 2 Piece A<->Channel 2 Piece B, etc.). The latter makes it so changes I make that should be within a "channel" schematic (isolated to the inside of the common subcircuit) now require adding/modifying ports and connections for every channel at the root level since a single channel is made up from multiple subcircuits because of the single sheet limitation I mention.
Hope that explains my issue better, I think there is a feature request in here that multiple sheets are supported at all levels of the hiarchy and not just the root level...or am I still missing how this could be done right now?
Darrell
The limitation I find is that even ONE of my "channel" schematics is too complex to fit on the single sheet that the SINGLE instance of a subcircuit allows.
Any suggestions?
Right now the only thing I can do is to have MULTIPLE subcircuits for EACH "channel" (with different circuit names like Channel Piece A, Channel Piece B, etc.). Which means a lot more adding ports to subciruit blocks and connecting things at the root level(Channel 1 Piece A <-> Channel 1 Piece B, Channel 2 Piece A<->Channel 2 Piece B, etc.). The latter makes it so changes I make that should be within a "channel" schematic (isolated to the inside of the common subcircuit) now require adding/modifying ports and connections for every channel at the root level since a single channel is made up from multiple subcircuits because of the single sheet limitation I mention.
Hope that explains my issue better, I think there is a feature request in here that multiple sheets are supported at all levels of the hiarchy and not just the root level...or am I still missing how this could be done right now?
Darrell
Re: Multiple Sheet Subcircuits
No, I understand now. Multiple sheets inside a sub-circuit is not by any means a quick or simple change and there hasn't really been demand.
The only suggestion I have is fit to page on print, although that will be near useless if you need go to A1 size sheets. Maybe PDF output instead of paper ?
I will ask dev to look at the case and see what's involved technically.
The only suggestion I have is fit to page on print, although that will be near useless if you need go to A1 size sheets. Maybe PDF output instead of paper ?
I will ask dev to look at the case and see what's involved technically.
Re: Multiple Sheet Subcircuits
Iain, after your comment I got curious and went to see what some of the other major schematic software was capable of...started with looking at Altium Designer. After a little reading about hierarchical layouts in that SW, I got the impression that they were limited to one page per child(subcircuit) also). OK, guess I must be wanting something unusual then, but this can't be just a problem for me.
I actually was an Orcad user prior to changing to Proteus many many many years ago when Proteus (ISES/ARES) was still missing some bells and whistles I was used to. Orcad had allowed essentially multi page schematics in a design to be embedded as "subcircuits" themselves...so I just expected that to be something a complete schematic capture SW would do and Proteus just wasn't there yet at the time(but maybe someday I thought).
Somehow the fact that there is the one page limit to subcircuits(child schematics) had blinded me from realizing that there were no limits on the depth of subcircuits in the hierarchy.
So how do you add more pages to a subcircuit...add more new subcircuits on that subcircuit page.
The only real slight disadvantage to this as opposed to a multi-sheet sub circuit is that you need to add all the ports on the additional subcircuit components and then wire those subcircuit components together.
In any case, all the work is really done once per "channel" design and then tracks for each instance of the top level subcircuit component used multiple times at the root level.
Doing this (additional subcircuits in the hierarchy) addresses essentially all the other issues I had: gives you more pages to work with for the "channel" schematic, allows changes within the "channel" schematic to propagate to all other instances of the subcircuit in the root level schematic, and nicely prepends net names for each "channel" with the reference name for the root level subcircuit "component" (the latter being very nice when manually routing something complex).
Pretty funny it only took about 12 years to realize this solution:)
I actually was an Orcad user prior to changing to Proteus many many many years ago when Proteus (ISES/ARES) was still missing some bells and whistles I was used to. Orcad had allowed essentially multi page schematics in a design to be embedded as "subcircuits" themselves...so I just expected that to be something a complete schematic capture SW would do and Proteus just wasn't there yet at the time(but maybe someday I thought).
Somehow the fact that there is the one page limit to subcircuits(child schematics) had blinded me from realizing that there were no limits on the depth of subcircuits in the hierarchy.
So how do you add more pages to a subcircuit...add more new subcircuits on that subcircuit page.
The only real slight disadvantage to this as opposed to a multi-sheet sub circuit is that you need to add all the ports on the additional subcircuit components and then wire those subcircuit components together.
In any case, all the work is really done once per "channel" design and then tracks for each instance of the top level subcircuit component used multiple times at the root level.
Doing this (additional subcircuits in the hierarchy) addresses essentially all the other issues I had: gives you more pages to work with for the "channel" schematic, allows changes within the "channel" schematic to propagate to all other instances of the subcircuit in the root level schematic, and nicely prepends net names for each "channel" with the reference name for the root level subcircuit "component" (the latter being very nice when manually routing something complex).
Pretty funny it only took about 12 years to realize this solution:)